Episode 17: How to Master Local SEO in 2025: Exclusive Insights from Whitespark

Key Takeaways

• Engagement signals — time on profile, clicks, review reading — are becoming a dominant local ranking factor
• Services on Google Business Profile now directly impact rankings, and most businesses still have them empty
• Review recency matters more than review volume — businesses that stop getting reviews drop in the local pack and recover when they resume
• Getting listed on best-of lists is one of the most effective strategies for both traditional local rankings and LLM visibility
• Conversions, not rankings, should be the primary metric for local SEO success

Local SEO is evolving faster than at any point in its history. Between Google’s shifting search results, the rise of AI-driven discovery, and new insights from the API leak and DOJ trials, the strategies that worked even two years ago may no longer be sufficient.

In this episode of the Local Marketing Beat podcast, host Krystal Taing sits down with Darren Shaw, Founder of Whitespark, to preview the biggest changes coming to local search ranking factors, explain why engagement signals and review recency are overtaking traditional optimization, how AI search is making personalization a reality, and why conversions should replace rankings as the primary measure of local SEO success.

Timestamps

00:00 Introduction to Darren Shaw and Whitespark’s 20-year journey

01:49 What’s changing in the next Local Search Ranking Factors report

04:07 Engagement signals: the biggest shift confirmed by the Google API leak

05:32 Services, hours, and the diversity update as new ranking factors

08:21 Consumer search behavior: mobile, voice, and AI-driven discovery

12:49 AI personalization and the end of static keyword rankings

16:22 Best-of lists and review diversification for LLM visibility

19:12 GBP optimization: services, photos, videos, and freshness

23:00 Social content appearing in Google search results

25:37 Measuring local SEO success: conversions over rankings

Engagement Signals Are Becoming a Dominant Ranking Factor

“Because of the Google API leak and the DOJ trials, we know how important behavioral and engagement signals are. You’re going to see a massive increase in people identifying the importance of engagement signals in the next edition of the Local Search Ranking Factors.” — Darren Shaw

Darren identifies engagement signals as the single biggest development heading into the next edition of the Local Search Ranking Factors report.

The Google API leak and DOJ trial documents confirmed what many practitioners suspected: How users interact with your Google Business Profile — time spent reading reviews, clicking through photos, watching videos, engaging with posts — directly impacts your local rankings.

For multi-location brands, this shifts the optimization mindset from filling in fields to creating genuinely engaging profile experiences. Darren stresses that regular Google updates (posts), fresh photos and videos, and a steady stream of reviews all contribute to the kind of engagement that keeps users on your profile longer.

The more time people spend interacting with your Google Business Profile, the stronger the signal to Google that your business is relevant and popular.

Services, Hours, and the Diversity Update Are Reshaping Rankings

“Services impacting rankings is a very significant development. If you didn’t know that, make sure that you are selecting any predefined services and that you are adding descriptions and really thinking about your services and building them out nicely.” — Darren Shaw

Darren highlights three ranking developments that will be new to the upcoming report.

First, services on Google Business Profile (GBP) now directly impact rankings — yet most businesses still have empty services sections. The recommendation is to select all relevant predefined services and add detailed descriptions. Second, business hours affect rankings more than previously understood: Businesses see ranking drops not only when closed but in the hours approaching closing time, as Google prioritizes businesses that are currently open.

Third, the diversity update — where Google limits a business from appearing in both organic results and the Local Pack if its GBP URL already ranks organically — is emerging as a factor that multi-location brands need to monitor.

For brands using listings management to maintain accurate hours and services across locations, these developments underscore why every field on the profile matters and why location data management needs to be treated as an ongoing operational priority, not a one-time setup.

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Review Recency Matters More Than Review Volume

“I have clients where if they haven’t gotten a review in the last three weeks, four weeks, they start to drop. And then as soon as they get a handful of new reviews, you see them jump right back up. Recency is a big thing.” — Darren Shaw

Darren makes a compelling case that review recency — the freshness of your most recent reviews — is now more important than total review count.

He has repeatedly observed clients drop in the Local Pack when new reviews dry up, and recover as soon as fresh reviews come in. This pattern extends beyond reviews: Darren argues that recency and freshness will be a defining theme for local SEO going forward, applying equally to photos, videos, and Google Posts.

He also notes that negative reviews are not as damaging as having no reviews at all. A business that receives a negative review after a dry spell may actually see a ranking improvement simply because Google received a fresh signal. For brands scaling review management across hundreds of locations, the takeaway is clear: Build systems that generate a consistent flow of reviews at every location, every month, rather than chasing volume in bursts.

Best-of Lists and Review Diversification for AI Visibility

“Getting listed on best-of lists is a surefire way to rank much better in the local results. Whatever your industry is, search best keyword in city and then see what pages are coming up and how you could get your business on that.” — Darren Shaw

Darren identifies two strategies that bridge traditional local SEO and AI search visibility. The first is getting listed on best-of lists — curated pages that rank for queries like “best [category] in [city].” These pages are heavily cited by LLMs when generating recommendations, making them one of the highest-leverage activities for both Google and AI discovery.

The second is review diversification. Most businesses focus all their review generation efforts on Google, but LLMs pull from TripAdvisor, Yelp, Yellow Pages, and industry-specific sites.

If all of your reviews are on Google, you might be invisible to AI tools that are looking at the broader web. For multi-location brands, this means expanding customer review strategies beyond Google and ensuring a presence on every platform that LLMs are known to reference.

AI Personalization Is Making Static Rankings Obsolete

“There is no ‘how do I rank for this keyword?’ It depends on who’s searching, what their history is, what device they’re searching on. You don’t think about rankings. You just think about general visibility — how often do I appear and why would Google, Gemini, ChatGPT surface my business?” — Darren Shaw

Darren describes a fundamental shift in how local visibility works. AI-powered search — whether through Google Gemini, ChatGPT, or Apple Intelligence — is making results increasingly personalized based on user history, device, location, and preferences.

A single keyword can return a hundred different results depending on who is searching. This makes traditional rank tracking directionally useful but no longer a reliable measure of success.

Darren predicts that Google will win the AI search race specifically because of its Google Business Profile database — the richest source of structured local business data in the world.

For brands, this means that injecting accurate, detailed information into your GBP is essentially feeding Google’s AI directly. Combined with location performance optimization, the goal shifts from ranking for specific keywords to maximizing the likelihood that your business appears across the widest range of relevant, personalized queries.

Conversions Should Replace Rankings as the Primary Success Metric

“You could actually have the situation where your rankings are better than ever but your call volume and your closed business is lower. The whole landscape is different and so you can’t hinge everything on rankings. You have to look at the end result.” — Darren Shaw

The industry needs to move beyond rankings as the primary metric for local SEO success. With Google constantly changing the search results layout — adding Local Services Ads, shopping panels, image carousels, and AI overviews — a number-one organic ranking may now sit far down the page, delivering fewer clicks and leads than it used to.

Darren recommends focusing on conversions: calls, form submissions, direction clicks, and booked appointments.

These are the metrics that connect most directly to revenue. Rank tracking remains valuable for directional insight (are we trending up or down?), but it should never be the headline metric in client reporting. For brands using analytics and reporting tools to justify local marketing investment, the shift from rankings to conversions is not just a best practice — it is the only way to accurately measure the impact of a strategy in today’s fragmented search landscape.